Carol H – 67 years and never had such results and never felt better
‘It’s been five months with the Diabetes Clinic programme and I feel more energetic now than ever before. I am amazed at how great I feel! My HbA1c has been as high as 83 however my very latest HbA1c lab result was 48. This officially now makes me pre-diabetic and marks the first time in 14 years that I can say that.’
As many doctors before have said to their patients – your diabetes is not reversible. However, if this is to be believed and indeed if Type 2 diabetic Carol Hudson, 67, had believed it, where would her health be today? Would Carol be sharing the joy of a healthy life? The answer is in the statistics for Type 2 diabetes and the strain on our health systems from its progression and complications Carol, however, is an example of how diabetes and health can be turned around.
Carol came to the Diabetes Clinic programme as a type 2 diabetic of 14 years, with a doctor that told her that her diabetes was not reversible. Years of weight issues and dieting had dominated her adult life. Now five months into a new way of living, Carol has shared what her health now looks like.
Before the programme my blood glucose levels on my home testing kit have been as high as 17mmol/L and now they average 6 – 7 and I have seen even lower numbers.
I am aiming for under 5.5 to officially reverse my disease.
With more time where I keep doing what I am doing, I’m confident of this.
I have now lost over 15kg, from a start weight of 95k. I have finally found people who believe in me, and a regime that works, and it is so easy. My weight loss is incredible to me, especially without the sense of being on a ‘diet’. It is just a friendly side result as I have been addressing my main goal of reversing my diabetes. I do not weigh myself anymore after years of dieting. I listen to my body and manage my blood glucose levels.
My doctor is happy and I have now come off all my medicines and my blood glucose levels remain the lowest they have been (without taking the medication). I was starting to get quite a few uncomfortable symptoms, many indicating neuropathy settling in (nerve damage). My numbness, cramps and leg pain has gone, I urinate much less, perhaps ‘normal now’. My itchy skin has stopped and I was getting a lot of skin tags and that seems to have stopped. I feel I have prevented big health complications
I feel so empowered about my own health for the first time in my life. Through the Diabetes Clinic Programme, I finally know what to do and know that it is working. This is after years of unhelpful advice – which I did try to follow – the usual – eat less – exercise more, eat certain carbs (sigh)! I have stopped asking for that standard help, in fact, I gained weight and higher blood sugar levels. What I am doing now with the programme is not hard for me, it feels like a normal part of my life. It instinctively feels natural and right and therefore quite easy. I have even set a goal to walk a half marathon.
For the first time, all the information I needed was in one place. I don’t think I could have achieved my results on my own, I would have fallen off the wagon if I hadn’t had the programme and the other people doing it together. The facebook group is right there every day as such a supportive community.
I still have 7 months left of support and guidance because it is a 12-month programme. When I achieve my weight and health goals I will have time to work with the long term maintenance section of the programme. Because the programme is online, I have made my way through the modules at my own pace and timing which has worked
so well for me. Being accountable and part of a group has made a big difference to my experience and results.
I can recommend the Diabetes Clinic to anyone who wants to turn their diabetes around. It is a doctor-led programme and the team really know what they are doing.
Thank you to all the amazing staff at the Diabetes Clinic and all the wonderful people on Facebook, who are always encouraging, have answered questions I didn’t know to ask and who have enthused me with your wonderful posts. Thank you all, I am eternally grateful.”
Sue G – When ‘trying everything’ didn’t work to change her type 2 diabetes, finding the one thing that did work changed her life. Now officially no longer living with diabetes after 12 years.
‘ I have been amazed by the programme and I’m very happy indeed. I’ve really appreciated all of the information and expertise and it’s been inspiring to be getting results .’ Expanding on her success, she says that ‘the informationis all in one place and the support from other members working to reverse their diabetes has been invaluable.’
When Sue, 66, was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes 12 years ago, her doctor advised that losing weight would be the biggest factor in changing her disease. She focused seriously on her weight for the next three months, following the standard nutritional advice for type 2 diabetes, tracking both her weight and blood glucose levels. The results were disappointing and surprising in that she lost no weight and her blood glucose levels did not change. It felt like a chore and with no benefit.
Discovering the Diabetes Clinic Programme, Sue was sceptical, “I didn’t believe this was going to work. I thought I’ve already tried everything and I did not get results, how would this be different?” Five months into her12 month programme, Sue couldn’t be more surprised at the results she has achieved. Sue’s doctor has declared her no longer diabetic and has taken her off her last diabetes medication (metformin).
Sue has now lost 24cm from her waist and 20 kilograms in total. She has exceeded her initial goal weight and has now reset a new goal weight to continue working towards. The suggestion that she focus on her measurements rather than her weight helped her get through the times when there was little or no weight loss on the scales. Finally, this weight loss helped break a firm belief she had about type 2 diabetes, believing that she could not lose any weight with her diabetes.
After 3 months her HbA1c decreased from 70 to 50 and now, 3 months later it came down to 31. Her blood glucose levels from her home testing have gone from an average of 11mmol/L down to 5 mmol/L on some days placing her in the ideal 4-7 mmol/L range.
These important measures tell one success story for Sue, however it’s the quality of life Sue now experiences that is also a great success. She now
enjoys better sleep and a general sense of being in charge of her health again. With a much better relationship with food, she looks forward to her
meals and no longer counts calories. It was all such a chore before and now Sue is ‘into it’, knowing she has a way of life that is sustainable and achievable for living free from the disease of type 2 diabetes.
The Diabetes Clinic Programme provided Sue with new information paired with the support that made all of the difference. “I have been amazed by the programme and I’m very happy indeed. I’ve really appreciated all of the information and expertise and it’s been inspiring to be getting results .” Expanding on her success, she says that “the information is all in one place and the support from other members working to reverse their diabetes has been invaluable.”
Avril B – 53, was given an ultimatum by her doctor – improve her blood glucose levels in 3 months or face daily insulin injections.
‘It’s like my body has had a wonderful reset and now craves healthy food choices most of the time. A treat these days is naturally flavoured fizzy water. I can’t actually believe this!’
‘This programme is great and I thank the other members very much. I am a happier, healthier me.’
Avril, 53, was given an ultimatum by her doctor – improve her blood glucose levels in 3 months or face daily insulin injections. With a HbA1c at an extreme of 87mmol/ mol, Avril knew change was essential or she faced the last stop before her pancreas would wear out completely.
It wasn’t going to be easy though, as Avril consumed soft drinks and ice cream daily. Having had a diabetes diagnosis for years and not knowing what to do about it, Avril seemed stuck in the medical management of Type 2 diabetes that only leads to devastating complications. The answers and support were not there for her.
Finding that support in the Diabetes Clinic 12 month programme was just the answer Avril was in search of. A proven programme in changing the direction of diabetes, with a focus on lifestyle changes to reduce medications, and the education with daily support for sustainable change.
With her doctor’s ultimatum motivating her, Avril has done it! Her HbA1c has come down from a high 87mmol/mol to 55mmol/mol. Her blood glucose levels from her home testing have gone from as high as 16mmol/L to an average of between 6-8mmol/L. She has been able to cut back on her metformin medication and continues to be guided by her doctor on further reductions, but more importantly, she is not heading toward insulin injections.
Avril has moved out of the extreme danger zone and is well on her way to reversing her diabetes, something that did not seem possible just a few months ago. Importantly, Avril is confident in her future that she knows exactly how to keep going with her new lifestyle and how to get to the goal results she has set.
Remarkably, Avril says that, ‘ I now actually feel sick or am sick, if I have the soft drinks and ice cream I used to. It’s like my body has had a wonderful reset and now craves healthy food choices most of the time. A treat these days is naturally flavoured fizzy water. I can’t actually believe this!’
What surprises a lot of programme participants are the daily benefits that come from lowered blood sugars. For Avril, her sleep has never been better and she is learning about food and her relationship to it. Another key benefit has been weight loss, even though it has not been a main focus. Her energy is better and she is enjoying the lifestyle.
She didn’t think she could achieve these results, however with the support of the team and the other members along with her new knowledge, she now knows the strategies that work for her.
It is only a matter of time now for her full health recovery and with seven months of her programme remaining, Avril has the further support, learning and actions for long lasting success. Her daughters and grandchildren are proud of her and know that she is in much better shape for being present, happy and healthy to share in their future together.
Avril is so thankful for finding the Diabetes Clinic programme, ‘I am enjoying learning so much about this disease and it is all making sense to me, finally. I am dedicated to this programme and I can’t wait to get my HbA1c to 37 and say that I no longer have diabetes. This programme is great and I thank the other members very much. I am a happier, healthier me.’
That ultimatum? Averil’s doctor wrote EXCELLENT on her recent ‘my health’ results and Avril couldn’t be prouder of herself for not only heeding the ultimatum but gaining the healthy life she has always wanted.
Colin H – Information is key for Type 2 Diabetes . . . if you can arm yourself with the right knowledge, you can be in charge of your own health.
‘I can recommend the Diabetes Clinic to others for their expertise and support. I am looking forward to being a non-diabetic and continuing to improve my more complex health issues over time. I know I am on the right path with the right knowledge’.
Cramps were the symptoms that saw Colin, 58, diagnosed with type 2 diabetes 5 years ago. Now he is happy to share his story with others, who may also not have the knowledge to manage their own health, despite trying to make changes.
Now free from the cramps and facial neuralgia that gave his initial warning signs of disease, Colin has created a lifestyle that is working and that feels manageable long term. This came from the knowledge and support gained from the specialised online programme from the Diabetes Clinic. This filled a gap in the information and application of strategies that work, that he was unable to find from the usual channels.
As is often the case with type 2 diabetes, weight gain was a challenge Colin faced. After learning the mechanisms of this weight gain through the Diabetes Clinic programme and implementing the easy to follow strategies, Colin is enjoying being 25 kilograms lighter. He has 20 kilograms more to go to reach his ideal goal weight. He is confident with combining the food and exercise changes, as well as regular fasting, that he can keep feeling good and on track to achieve this goal.
Importantly his HbA1c and blood glucose levels are both moving down in the right direction and to date his diabetes medicines have been halved. Colin is under specialist care for other serious health issues related to his liver and kidneys, which motivates him to stay focused and self-directed about his own health, with the daily support of the programme team.
Colin knows that you live with diabetes every day, ‘Your doctor can see you for 5 minutes at a time, but you are living with diabetes and its complications every day. Information is key, if you can arm yourself with the right knowledge, you can be in charge of your own health.’
Too often it’s assumed that type 2 diabetes cannot be reversed and must be managed by medication for life. Whilst Colin is still on his journey he says, ‘I can recommend the Diabetes Clinic to others for their expertise and support. I am looking forward to being a non-diabetic and continuing to improve my more complex health issues over time. I know I am on the right path with the right knowledge’.
Fiona C, 63 Before Type 2 Diabetes comes Prediabetes, which is a warning sign of a complicated and far reaching disease ahead.
‘I have lost 30kg now and am well under that horrid 100 kg barrier, which I have sought to crack for 18 years. I am amazed! I have finally found people who believe in me, and an eating regime that works, and it is so easy.’
Fiona, 63, lives in the South Island of New Zealand and recently discovered she had prediabetes. Many years ago, serious gum disease was the first diabetes symptom to reveal itself before better screening for diabetes was implemented. Fiona has benefited from improved screening, with the opportunity to halt a disease that takes on average 10 to 13 years to develop.
With her diagnosis of prediabetes and a HbA1c reading of 44, Fiona kicked into action immediately with the Diabetes Clinic Programme and within a short six weeks her doctor cleared her of the diagnosis. With her HbA1c now at 37, she has successfully avoided diabetes and any need for diabetes medicines.
The biggest delight of all for Fiona has been significant weight loss after years of trying without success, “I have lost 30kg now and am well under that horrid 100 kg barrier, which I have sought to crack for 18 years. I am amazed! I have finally found people who believe in me, and an eating regime that works, and it is so easy.”
Fiona has rewired her brain to say “I don’t need to eat” and after years of dieting that didn’t work, she now understands that “it is ok to eat good fat”. This broke down a long held belief around fats, however with significant weight loss AND no hunger, Fiona has all the proof she needs that it works. With many of Fiona’s other health issues also resolving, along with saying goodbye to sugar cravings, the programme’s benefits have changed her full health picture.
Without doubt, education and knowledge is essential to long term change in that members can own their health and the daily decisions that make a difference. The support however, is what helps members to stay on track, something that Fiona values greatly, ‘Thank you to all the amazing team at the Diabetes Clinic and all you wonderful people on our Facebook page, who are always encouraging, prompted questions I didn’t know to ask and enthused me with their wonderful posts. I have learnt a huge amount that many diabetics do not know, but need to.”
Prevention is better than cure and taking proactive steps against prediabetes can stop the disease in its early stages. It’s simply never too soon to make these lifestyle changes. Fiona agrees, “I can recommend anyone wanting to be free of diabetes or to ditch those dreaded kilos that contribute to the disease, to join the Diabetes Clinic without hesitation.”
Jo B cannot stop smiling – 59, From 58 units of insulin a day for Type 2 Diabetes to nil. It’s possible.
‘What an amazing programme this is. So far one of my biggest excitements is that I am off insulin injections! No more insulin for me!!! I truly thought insulin injections were part of my lot for life. I have gone from 58 units a day to nil – with the support of my GP, who is very impressed, AND my blood glucose levels are great!!!’
Jo, 59, cannot stop smiling about her results with the Diabetes Clinic. First diagnosed with type 2 diabetes 3 years ago, she followed the usual medical and nutritional advice but saw no change, only more medicines.
Fast forward and it took just 3 months for her doctor to unsubscribe her from all of her medicines. This is remarkable as her Hba1c got as high as 103.
In just 3 short months her recent results revealed an Hba1c of 41 and still going down. With several months still left on the programme, Jo is confident she has the support to achieve below 37 mmol/L to be officially reversed of diabetes.
Jo shares , “What an amazing programme this is. So far one of my biggest excitements is that I am off insulin injections! No more insulin for me!!! I truly thought insulin injections were part of my lot for life. I have gone from 58 units a day to nil – with the support of my GP, who is very impressed, AND my blood glucose levels are great!!!”
For Jo, like many with Type 2 diabetes, the medications list grew as the disease progressed and complications arose. However, Jo has quickly changed that, “I am off other meds too – statins, and water retention tablets and meds for my blood pressure. I have truly been given a second chance in life and am seeing and feeling health benefits that I never expected again! I feel great and I am so excited about it. I FEEL SO WELL!”
Where many people with Type 2 diabetes struggle is with their weight. Jo had made many past efforts to lose weight, without success. To date, Jo is now 30 kilograms lighter, with 13 kilograms to go to reach her ideal healthy weight. She now feels alive, sharing that, ‘living well means so much to me, I feel so alive and I feel good from morning to night. I have realised that feeling healthy is my right.’
The health benefits Jo is particularly appreciating is the increased energy and motivation. She previously felt so lethargic from morning to night and nana naps were part of each day. She felt so unmotivated each day, irritable, achy and her eyes were blurry.
Jo discovered the link between diet, pain and health, saying that, ‘I never knew the effect processed carbs had on my pain levels. I also no longer have split fingernails and I notice I now recover more quickly from unwellness.’ Her join pain, which was extreme at times and required pain relief often, has all now gone.
Combined with much better sleep, Jo is relishing her new health and understanding of her body.
She says, ‘The programme hasn’t been hard to follow at all. I listen to my body now, I know what works and I am confident about what to do. I am still learning and I now LOVE water and I can leave treats!’
How can these changes work for others? As Jo notes, diabetes takes years to develop, but ‘this success will happen for others too if the right choices are made, not overnight because diabetes takes years to develop but it will happen. I highly recommend the Diabetes Clinic and the knowledge and support that exists within this team.’
Jo is an inspiration and says that, ‘my journey is still continuing, the support is fantastic and I am filled with hope. It has been priceless and I am so grateful.’‘
Susan B – Knowledge is powerful in Type 2 Diabetes and for many, daily testing creates accountability for change.
‘my energy is better and my knees and ankles are much less achy which allows me to do more walking. I have got myself into a good routine with eating and I have a new healthy relationship with food. I am now working on managing my stress related to work and study while I have the support of the Diabetes Clinic team and other programme members.’
Susan, 55, held health and food knowledge more than most, however her food choices were still driven by sugar addiction. When diagnosed with prediabetes, she was sure that would kick start her into healthier food choices, however the chocolate kept coming back and the resulting weight gain came with it.
When Susan’s diabetes nurse reacted to her HbA1c results of 42 with “oh, it’s mild, don’t bother yourself with it”, Susan chose a different path. With a need for support and accountability to make real change, Susan joined the Diabetes Clinic Programme. With one of the programme’s key features being daily self-testing for blood glucose levels, Susan then felt informed and in charge of managing change by monitoring just how her food choices were affecting her blood sugar levels. She was particularly surprised to learn that eating grains had a similar effect on her blood sugar levels as eating sugar.
Her HbA1c is now under 37 meaning Susan is now classified as non-diabetic and most importantly feels in charge of sugar, which was the underlying cause of her food choices. This change has taken less than 4 months and after so many diets, Susan is delighted to have lost at least 10 kilograms and many centimetres off her body. Her weight loss is continuing but more so, she feels healthy and confident to reclaim her health and ideal weight back. She is able to tune in to her body signals and take more care. Susan has even left an old favourite behind saying, “I can no longer handle eating a caramel slice, my all-time favourite”.
Through the Diabetes Clinic Programme Susan has discovered the combination of holistic lifestyle changes that work together to improve health. Measures of health including energy, pain, stress and sleep have all improved for her, “my energy is better and my knees and ankles are much less achy which allows me to do more walking. I have got myself into a good routine with eating and I have a new healthy relationship with food. I am now working on managing my stress related to work and study while I have the support of the Diabetes Clinic team and other programme members.”
By combining knowledge, expertise, monitoring, support and community together, Susan has moved from prediabetic to non-diabetic and is now in control of her choices, “I am very grateful for the encouragement of other members and for the expertise of the Diabetes Clinic team. It has been a wonderful opportunity for me.” Many more opportunities now await Susan with her new lease on life!
Maria – I have had Type 2 Diabetes for 17 years. What I wished I knew sooner.
‘Diabetes is a lot about numbers. We measure our progress by them and for me, learning to understand them, what impacts them and how I can change them, has been life changing.’
‘Since being with the Diabetes Clinic, I have come off many diabetes medications including statins, glipizide and insulin injection of 75 units per day.’
I was introduced to diabetes whilst pregnant, as I developed gestational diabetes. Later I developed Type 2 diabetes (gestational diabetes is a risk factor for Type 2 diabetes) which has now been with me for 17 years, dominating my health and life as my disease worsened.
I really had no hope of ever being free of this disease. And that’s despite being very informed about health and being motivated to have the best health possible. When I heard about the Diabetes Clinic, my question was (like always) ‘What else can I do’ .
Thankfully my feelings about this were validated by Kimba Lawrence, the founder of Diabetes Clinic and we really looked at whether their programme would work for me.
For many years, I have been on diabetes medications including insulin, which actually did not stabilise or lower my blood sugar levels. In the past, I have experienced very unstable blood glucose levels that have been perplexing. For example, experiencing blood glucose levels of 20 after just having vegetable soup.
I have now figured out that hormones are playing a big part in these unstable glucose levels and also insulin resistance. Adding complexity, I was also diagnosed with PCOS many years ago and I have had some harsh medications related to treating this condition. Pcos is referred to as insulin resistance of the uterus.
Since being with the Diabetes Clinic, I have come off many diabetes medications including statins, glipizide and insulin injection of 75 units per day. I do still take metformin and some other drugs for other metabolic syndrome conditions, but the long list of medications and their load on my body is greatly reduced.
Diabetes is a lot about numbers. We measure our progress by them and for me, learning to understand them, what impacts them and how I can change them, has been life changing.
Here’s my numbers so far that show just what’s possible with the right programme: My Hba1c has been as high as 77 as I entered peri-menopause and they are currently 69, heading down in the right direction.
My Blood glucose levels have been 20ish and now my average level is around 10, but can go as low as 6.
Sharon – Slow and steady can still win the race in changing the direction of
Type 2 Diabetes.
‘I have watched my weight go up over the years and I ticked 11 of the symptoms related to diabetes. The Diabetes Clinic has been a great source of information and ideas sharing. I am looking forward to achieving even more results. I can see this is a lifestyle change that can happen over time, slowly and steadily to create the health I want.’
Sharon, 53, has had Type 2 diabetes for 10 years, following gestational diabetes 26 years ago.
Like so many with Type 2 diabetes cases, the years added more diabetes medications, then at increased doses, just to simply manage the disease and its symptoms. Hand in hand with this was the weight gain that crept up, compounding the complications of Type 2 diabetes.
Sharon was motivated to lower her medicines, learn to control her diabetes naturally and losing some weight would be a great bonus.
A key marker for Type 2 diabetes, Sharon’s HbA1c was 62 when she joined the Diabetes Clinic Programme, along with blood glucose levels around 12 but this level being managed with insulin injections, glipizide and metformin.
Her HbA1c has actually been as high as 70. Sharon was a suitable candidate for the Diabetes Clinic Programme and was excited to see what could be achieved.
Within just 3 months on the programme, Sharon’s HbA1c retested at 42, and she has lost 7 kilograms which is 75% of the way to her goal. She says, ‘ I was so excited after years of seeing my HbA1c and weight slowly going up. For this programme to have made such a difference in such a short time is amazing.’
Sharon’s insulin and blood pressure medications have been reduced so far, achieving a key goal for her health. With a lot more energy, Sharon wakes less tired, sleeps better and generally feels a lot better with her health and wellbeing.
Her doctor is pleased with Sharon’s progress (we work together with your doctor) and she is continuing to implement the necessary changes to her diet and lifestyle, for long term sustainable health. What Sharon has appreciated with the programme is that she can do the learning and make the changes at her own pace, which is slowly.
With an investment in a walking machine, she is managing 3 walking sessions per week, slowly and steadily achieving her goals through the added benefit of exercise.
Sharon noted that it was hard to find the help she needed when the standard medical care wasn’t working, ‘I have watched my weight go up over the years and I ticked 11 of the symptoms related to diabetes. The Diabetes Clinic has been a great source of information and ideas sharing. I am looking forward to achieving even more results. I can see this is a lifestyle change that can happen over time, slowly and steadily to create the health I want.’
Judith – I had diabetes for so many years, thinking I had to just live with it. Now I know
that this is not true.
“I feel way, way better in my energy levels, it’s fantastic. I appreciated the recipes, all of the diabetes information and I enjoyed following the diabetes community on the Facebook page, which was full of positive changes and support, along with helpful ideas.”
Sometimes a person surprises the medical profession. Judith, 49, was one such person. She was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes at the age of 28 and over the next 21 years she had managed it without needing medication. This is an exception, but eventually every body reaches its limit.
Then she experienced three months of consistently erratic blood sugar levels that couldn’t be self managed, Judith knew she had to get help. Her blood glucose levels were now averaging 10 mmol/L and higher . As a result of these high blood glucose levels, her symptoms were increasingly uncomfortable and heading into serious territory. They included:
• Numbness in her right hand
• Constant thirst
• Blurry vision (this was her main concern)
• Foggy brain
• Low energy
• Hot flushes
• Thrush (which was actually the first symptom of her
Judith took an important step and became a Diabetes
Clinic online programme member.
She is now very happy to report blood glucose levels of 6 and 7mmol/L which has decreased to a level she has not seen for many years. As a result of this decrease, most of her symptoms listed above have either resolved or are hardly present.
Judith’s medical doctor is very pleased with her new HbA1c level. Having stabilised at the 6 month mark of our programme, Judith has now been given a new status of prediabetes by her doctor, something that she never imagined achieving. It was her belief that once you have Type 2 diabetes, that you simply have to learn to live with it. The chemical changes for Judith only tell one part of her story. She has also achieved her ideal body weight having lost 7 kilos with an eating plan designed for diabetes and sustainable nutrition. She feels “just the right weight”, which not many people get to say.
Judith says “I feel way, way better in my energy levels, it’s fantastic”.
She is so pleased with her progress and is now focussing on maintaining her lifestyle to reduce her diabetes markers even further. The programme has given her the confidence to believe that reaching the milestone of being non-diabetic after 21 years, is achievable. In fact, Judith says that the programme wasn’t hard and instead just made sense as it worked to deliver noticeable and measurable results. “I appreciated the recipes, all of the diabetes information and I enjoyed following the diabetes community on the Facebook page, which was full of positive changes and support, along with helpful ideas.”
Judith encourages anyone who is ready to reverse their diabetes to firstly, believe it is possible and to take the step toward it by joining the Diabetes Clinic Online Programme, “I had this for so many years, thinking I had to just live with it’. Now I know that this is not true”.
Are you ready to reverse your diabetes and regain your health?
Join the Diabetes Clinic online programme
a doctor- led, specialised education & support programme and a community of people changing together.